Jobcentre Plus: where do they get the Decision Makers from?
Post Categories: DWP • decision maker • jobcentre Plus • uk government
Tags: decision maker, DWP, jobcentre Plus, sanctions
I have been tipped off by a blog viewer about the issue with a Decision Maker trying to apply a sanction for failing to apply for a job given to her as a Jobseeker Direction which is clearly “unreasonable”.
I have seen the documents electronically to prove this and it seems like something which could be a wider issue.
The situation.
Suzie (made up name for privacy) attended an interview on the 8th July 2009 in the afternoon with her NDPA who advised her of a job. The adviser explained to her the particulars of the job such as the hours per week, wage, role and how to apply – the adviser didn’t mention about the closing date. Suzie accepted the job with open arms and the NDPA printed out the Jobseeker Direction.
When Suzie got home she noticed that the closing date was tomorrow (9am on 9th July 2009) and the instructions for applying was ring up for an application form, complete and return to the employer.
Suzie was sincere about the situation – she told an Employment Officer that she didn’t apply for the job and explained the reason for it. This was passed on to a Decision Maker. A Decision Maker contacted her asking several questions about it including why she felt she didn’t have to apply. She answered the questions promptly. A few weeks later she received another demand to answer one question again with a week deadline to comply.
This was one of the questions *again* – why she felt it was impossible to apply for the job given to her on the 8th July by the 9th July.
Suzie decided to kill two birds with one stone by going shopping afterwards considering the Jobcentre was in the town centre and so was the shops. She then waited for a bus home.
The breakdown
- By the time she was at home it was beyond office hours. Therefore she couldn’t ring up to request an application form.
- Even if she was available to ring up for an application form and the appointment was in the morning, if the employer sent out the application form the same day (which from my own personal experience they typically send them out the following day) by Royal Mail First Class delivery (Royal Mail says 1-2 days delivery time: http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/jump1?catId=400023&mediaId=400028) this would mean a possible delivery time of between tomorrow or 2 days later.
- We can work out that the 2 days delivery maximum target wont do but even if the application form arrived first thing the following day – there is no time to fill it in and have it arrive by 9am that same day. It is almost impossible to get your post and fill in an application form by 9pm alone without having to send it off.
- Even if it arrived the following day you would need to fill it in and post it which means by the earliest it will be a day late. The application form wouldnt be considered.
- OK, what is she picked up an application form and submited it by hand? Is Suzie to blame for not reading the Jobseeker Direction after the NDPA gave it to her assuming she had plenty of time to apply? If Suzie had read the Jobseeker Direction and went to pick up an application form in person during office hours (assuming the job was in the town centre or of easy travelling distance i.e. not rural) she would have had that night to fill it in.
- She could then submit the application form by hand as she would have missed the last posting time. The problem here is the office typically wouldn’t open until 9am (or not to the public anyway i.e. the reception area) so waiting until its opened she would miss the closing date although some employers may allow discretion for applications just past the closing date and time (i.e. within an hour) but as a jobseeker myself most employers have a very strict policy on this. It is likely the 9am deadline meant 5pm the following night giving an extra time for delayed postal applications.
You decide
It is likely she will get a sanction. I welcome your opinion of mainly the three following areas:
- Was the New Deal Personal Adviser wrong to submit someone to a job vacancy with a closing date of the following morning (considering that the Jobseeker Direction stated phone for an application form and it was impossible for one to arrive the same day – to be posted to arrive tomorrow)?
- Was Suzie to blame for her approach of applying for the jobs given to her the following day when she is refreshed and going shopping instead of using the initiative of collecting an application form in person (to fill in and hand deliver tomorrow morning without a guarantee of it being accepted)?
- Should the Decision Maker be applying sanctions to this woman (or keep sending out additional questions arguably affecting her curent ability to apply for other jobs with the added stress while considering sanctioning her) for not being able to apply as directed, as it would have been impossible for them to send out an application form she could fill in and make sure it arrives by 9am the following day, even if she was available immediately to execute the Jobseeker Direction (i.e. make the phone call)?
Also, are you a victim of this scam?
Link Summary
- Flexible New Deal: Who can award sanction doubts?
- Flexible New Deal Sanction Register
- Social Security and Child Support Appeal Tribunal: pathetic!
- New Labour POLICY requirements: Are they bullshit or not?
- Guide to Decision Makers Guide (DMG)
- 1 in 5 DWP staff sacked for Gross Misconduct; DWP shreds 2.63% of total workforce
13 Responses to “Jobcentre Plus: where do they get the Decision Makers from?”
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I signed-on on the 21st August and was shown a list of jobs on the computer that might interest me as per usual. I selected one and asked for a print-out but when I looked at the details I noticed that I was required send off a cv/written application to an address in another town and also that the closing date for the position was that same day. I mentioned this to the advisor serving me and asked her what I should do and she told be I didn’t have to apply for the job if I didn’t think I could deliver the application in time. I told her I would leave it then and she took the print out away from me saying she would make a note of it on the system.
A few days later I get a letter from the jobcentre saying that a doubt had arisen on my claim because I failed to apply for this job and that if I didn’t reply within 7 days my allowance would be suspended.
I replied to them explaining what happend, but as of yet no decision has been made and I am still waiting for a response from them.
Interesting. This is because they submitted you for the job. I am unaware of the exact ins and outs but Employment Officers don’t have the ability to unsubmit you to a job (maybe supervisors or management can?). She must have just thrown the print out away.
It is unlikely that they will check up on the application so she must have either reported you for refusing to apply (i.e. saying you left the details behind) or gone back to the vacancy selecting the Did Not Apply option. The latter being the more likely option. You might have had it listed on your next Action Plan unless it had been wiped from it. You might hear something in the new year otherwise they probably have ended their case. They will not notify you of that though.
i would have sent the thing and either printed off the posted e-mail as proof or recorded delivery,you have a strong case.if there isn’t a note on the system then yes if you haven’t applied one of these disgusting fill in the blanks letters will arrive often these can arrive when you have applied anyway.always retain proof of application.someone has checked.
there isnt a reason why this couldnt have been dealt with in the job centre before being forwarded for a decision.
1 always attend interviews
2 apply and keep vacancies applied for in news papers
3 fill in the work search activity booklet/never forget this when signing
4 sign on at right time.
5 ALWAYS keep proof of submitted vacancies you have been put forward for.
this will keep sanctions at bay while signing,new deal is another story as they revert to other “dubious in law” tactics’ under the guise of improving employability prospects through training.
someone just walking off saying they they will take care of it ignore them,the job centre appear to twist situations to their advantage.
I suspect an ad every so often in the Mail or Express gets them all the decision makers they need…
I have previous experience of working in Personnel/HR departments, where I primarily dealt with recruitment and selection, so I have some knowledge of this.
If the closing date was 9.00am on 9 July then no more applications should be accepted after that date/time, unless the employer agrees to an extension (which must be available to everybody, not just one person, to comply with equal opportunities). THE EMPLOYER MUST AGREE TO THIS BEFOREHAND, RATHER THAN THE JOB CENTRE ASSUMING IT. The adviser should have contacted the employer to see if an extension could be agreed. If the employer said ‘yes’ then all well and good, Suzie could apply. If the employer said ‘no’ then that should have been the end of it and the adviser should not have given the application details to Suzie. Suzie’s defence should be that the adviser was wrong not to check the closing date and that it was impossible for her to submit the completed application by the required date/time. As far as I can see, she has already stated that it was too late to apply (surely the decision maker can see this?). I would suggest that she makes a further statement about the advisers inability to read simple application details and follow this up with an official complaint to her Job Centre manager.
Yesterday I posted a reply on the sister site ‘New Deal Scandal’ about DWP/Job Centre staff being abused/sent hate mail. After reading this I can understand why people feel the need to let off steam at DWP/Job Centre staff, especially when these staff think they are intellectually superior and are often arrogant and patronising. Whether or not they are genuinely stupid is anyone’s guess. One thing is certain though, they are spiteful and vindictive, just like their corrupt paymasters in this Thatcherite New Labour government.
I am waiting to begin the flexible new deal in the new year. So far I have only received the leaflet which, behind the bullshit, basically says: conform or die! There must be an alternative. I can feel a complaint coming on already!
Happy Christmas!
Just started on one with Calder in North London. I have lost count of the times i’ve read or heard the word ‘sanction’. Would be nice to impose theultimate sanction on them. Going to run a weekly u[pdate on life (or lack of) at Colder.
Money in the form of revenues and profits is the only language these people understand. They know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
In the case of FND, most of the value of funds these organisations rake in from the Government is entirely dependant on participants’ Job Outcomes. But in order to go snooping on ex-participants the providers will need to have legal authorisation in the form of a Data Protection Act waiver signed by the participant. Consent for such authorisation has to be voluntary and refusal to give consent or withdrawing existing will not affect a participant’s entitlement to benefit.
I’ve been unemloyed for 7 months now and the prospect of having to attend Action4Exploitation or some other snivelling con artiste organisation is about as appealing as having my wisdom teeth removed by an alcoholic dentist. But if the worst comes to the worst I fully intend to write to the Chief Executive of the FND provider as soon as I have been notified to attend the “course” and let him/her know that my right to confidentiality and the safeguards provided by The Data Protection Act 1998 (and probably Article 8 of The Human Rights Act 1998)are neither subject to nor usurped by his/her desire to increase profits and consequently I have no intention of throwing away my rights under Data Protection legislation.
Of course I’m concerned that such action might lead to a benefit sanction by our friendly neighbourhood decision makers. But who knows ? a tribunal chairman or a Social Security commissioner might rule that under the circumstances such a sanction should not be imposed.
Its not a scam.
Its your responsibility to check the small print before agreeing/leaving the office.Dont be harassed from the office till your satisfied.
Take it from me JSA staff make mistakes too.They won’t be penalised on there £20,000 plus salary’s but you will and you will run around like a headless chicken sorting the mess out.
peace and love.
I work in the JC and I wouldn’t sanction people as I value my life outside work. Sleeping easy is important to me
I work for the job centre and I wish I was on 20k a year salary. You can knock 5k a year off that figure. Also I only sanction persistent timewasters who miss appointment after appointment or blatantly are not actively seeking work.
Sue that poses a very interesting question. What are your thoughts and opinions on those 3rd party carpet baggers that are bleeding money off the system and providing less service than at the jobcentre.
What about the poor claimant who is stuck between a rock and a hard place, mental issues. Wants a job and is looking, do you eve threaten them with a sanction
How do you feel about the impending privatisation of all the DWP jobcentres.
Why is it that the DWP listen to those crusty 70,80,and 90 yr old lords that have never done a proper days work in their lives to try and implement suggestions
Why isn’t the PCS Union got more of a backbone and kicking against the crap this and the previous government were shovelling
Sue apologies for trying to sound at you not meant to be insulting im just surprised that you guys and gals on the front line are letting the ddwp get away with the shyte they are shovelling