Been on New Deal? You are likely to be owed over £50
Post Categories: DWP • New Deal • new deal fraud • uk government
Tags: DWP, jobseekers allowance, jsa, New Deal, training allowance
After some extensive research into UK Unemployment Benefit (Jobseekers Allowance) and New Deal related legislation, New Deal Scandal can inform you, confirmed by DWP, that the £4 weekly travel deductions are unlawful. This means New Deal participants past and present are entitled to be reimbursed.
The Training Allowance
New Deal participants who claim for travel expenses are deducted £4 per week from their Training Allowance.
The Training Allowance and The Law
The law does mention about the extra weekly payment while on New Deal, it however doesn’t mention that:
- The Training Allowance being for, intended to be for or expected to be for, travel or food.
- It makes no acknowledgement of any lawful authority of £4 having been deducted each week (which is probably why the amount of training allowance weren’t £4 less even though obviously not everyone would claim travel)
Where does the £4 deduction come from then?
The £4 per week deduction is a contractual agreement between the Jobcentre/DWP and the New Deal provider. The £4 deduction is advised in the Provider Guidance (available on the DWP website). As the name suggests this is only guidance (I have spent a week checking up on the various laws to make sure) but the New Deal prime contractor provider has to follow this as the contract makes reference to it. This still makes it illegal – it doesn’t change this.
What is the legalities about this?
It is unlawful for the £4 per week travel deduction being made (especially when the other option is being out of pocket receiving no reimbursement at all). The New Deal provider are only doing this act because failure to do so could cause them problems as its is a condition for the contract.
How much is it worth?
If you didn’t claim travel then it is not worth anything. Also note that if you have been on New Deal previously you can also claim for then plus interest. You can only claim for the actual amount of weeks you have done though.
13 weeks @ £4 per week = £52 (around a weeks benefit money)
If you have been on New Deal 3 times (and claimed every week for travel) you are looking at £156 (plus interest).
Interest
This don’t work out as much as you can’t charge the rate set by banks etc. Use a Court Interest Calculator to work out how much you can apply for.
How do I get my money back?
You would have to write to either the New Deal provider or Jobcentre Plus. I would suggest the New Deal provider – they are a private business and have no lawful authority to tax you, whereas Jobcentre Plus does whatever it wants.
Just some points to remember:
- Quote the amounts – with a break down of number of weeks @ £4, the sub total, the interest (if applicable) and total
- Give them a deadline (7 or 14 days are typically a good choice)
- Remind them of a possible class action court case
- Tell them about the dates you were on programme (can be slightly estimated if unsure)
- It is better if you submitted your claim at the same time as others
Spread the word
Feel free to spread the word amongst other New Deal participants past and present.
Keep us updated on the response you hear back via the below comments.
Class action lawsuit
If New Deal providers and Jobcentre Plus refuse reimbursement as a group we could collectively take this to court. The amount in this scam could be as much as £50 million. (Depending on the number of participants claiming and number of weeks) – I would estimate at least £2 million.
Link Summary
43 Responses to “Been on New Deal? You are likely to be owed over £50”
- Jobseekers are advised to claim back unfair New Deal travel deductions « Jobseekers Allowance Advice:
- New Deal Travel Deductions: DWP admits £4 deductions are unlawful « Flexible New Deal Providers and Information & New Deal Scandal
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NDS: Well done for the research. This will come as encouraging news for the many thousands of jobseekers who have been on the New Deal over the years. I know from experience, many thought the GBP 4 travel expenses deduction was inherently wrong anyway. I’ll certainly pass on the word to one or two people. Let’s hope others follow your advice, and do the same!
I’ve actually been told several times by an advisor (only one, mind) on my New Deal course that despite spending over £30 a week traveling, they can only pay me £16.50 in travel expenses, and have only received that…
I take the train.
I was never actually told why my expenses had to be capped. The strange thing is that it isn’t a regular occurrence, it very much depends on which advisor is handling travel expenses that particular week.
punctilious post. simply one decimal where I quarrel with it. I am emailing you in detail.
Oh God-how crap is that?
Thank you for the advice. I recently signed off (though they were just about to sign me up to one of these courses), but will pass on this link to anyone in this situation.
wow! I’m suprised that my local dole are doing something Right for a change- they didn’t deduct from my JSA when I went on the two week course, and I could claim my bus fare back from the company that provided the course and got a free sandwich (massive thing, very nice) and free tea and coffee access.
A former New Deal client at A4e Hull inquired about the £4 Travel expenses deduction and was told “when i asked why the cost of £4 was deducted from your benefit money.i was told that it was to cover admin costs”.
I’m trying to get more details from him, but it just confirms what NDS has said all along: it’s an illegal deduction
If you have already contacted A4e and been fobbed off, which appears to be what is happening – contact the Jobcentre. And there is also your MP.
Whilst your article is informative and interesting, I can’t see how you have expalined exactly how the training provider’s 4 a week deduction is illegal, you have simply stated that it is. Can you expand on this for me please?
The training provider is neither an employer making a wage deduction or a shop making a taxation on a service they provide. The £4 a week deduction is on money the provider is giving the client, not forcing the client to pay them an extra £4.
The training providers claim the travel money back from the Job Centre Plus, and, although I am not sure (I will check) I believe that it is the JCP who make the £4 deduction.
I have claimed travel as a participant on a New Deal programme, I just wanted to ensure I had all the facts straight before I pursued any further claim.
i am with you ! lets get our money back !
When I queried the intended £4 deduction (from A4e) with my JobCentre advisor at the time, she told me that £4 of my JSA each week was allocated to travel anyway…So I wasn’t losing anything.
Interesting that when I got a travel allowance direct from the JobCentre it was for the full amount of a weekly travel ticket.
I was hoping SC would give us an update so we could find out if A4e are continuing to deduct the first GBP 4 of travel expenses. Come back SC, and let us know
Im currently on new deal and attending an a4e course and i can assure you that they are still taking the £4 a week from mine and everyonelses travel!
What i would like to know is how do i go about claiming for myself and a large group of about a hundered friends?
Any help would be great thanks
I had travel expenses paid in full by the private company the twice i was on new deal previously but the last time my nda told me that i would have to pay the first four pounds every week for travel as it turned out i signed off and didnt do new deal but does the illegal deductions rule apply in scotland?
I am on the 3rd week of the second stage of the new deal scheme where I was placed in a job, the training agency I am with have said that they will reimburse the cost of travel from my home to the placement.
However I am scared that if I make a fuss over the £4 a week whilst I am on the placement that they will with draw the offer to pay for the travel minus the £4 per week and tell me that I have to use the extra £15 per week to cover my own costs. are they able to do this or as the training provider do they have to cover all the travel costs ?
they know people wont be bothered about taking legal action so they will call your bluff. how would someone on the dole go about taking legal action? how much would it cost? you will also have the problem of them not liking you very much the next time you get refered to them.
so after bringing this up with the new deal scheme I was on I was told that the infomation that you had provided was wrong, (no suprise there) what would be the next step that I take. Reason I am asking is that the JSA I do recive allways gets used for essentials, and having to save £4 per week just to add it on to travel costs is just not feasable at times.
It is a shame that you cannot channel your efforts into finding a job instead of looking at how much more money you bleed out of the system.
Looking for a job is an on-going activity for an unemployed person, and has nothing to do with the pointless waste of time called new deal.
Hi
Could you let me know the legislation that deals with ND travel and also the relevent chapter in the Provider Guidence sheets?
Thanks
Got the ND Travel costs at Ch 4 so just need any legislation.
Ta
Ithink it is shocking that poor people are been robbed this way; i will claim my money back i think the newspapers would love a story like this shame on the goverment
so has anyone actually claimed this money back yet? I’m currently at another provider called charter training, “relearning” microsoft office which I actually did as part of a I.T course back in college, so its all a bit pointless really, but I am losing out on this £4 deduction along with many other people here and would like to know if anyone has been successful.
I will be very interested in this too.
I had successfully claimed my £4 per week deductions but was authorised by head office of my provider. Not sure about any other successful cases from people I dont personally know.
I known this for some time. I thought before I disclose it – I really should check the law to make sure its not hidden somewhere. After thorough examinating my suspicion was indeed correct. The deductions are unlawful.
Well, it is the credit crunch and many people have been on New Deal a few times. Could be £160 or so in it or around 3 weeks money.
Why is this?
What method of transport did you use?
You might be able to claim the difference each week.
Yeah, I know the type… every training organisation has one. You just have to learn the way around it.
YMCA Training have a system where:
1) you fill in a bank details form
2) you save your tickets for the end of the week
3) on friday you hand in your tickets (if you still have them)
4) they will pay you the reimbursement (minus £4) the following friday
The best way round this is to tell a white lie and say you don’t have a bank account and wait around at the end of the day to reclaim your travel on that day. You might come across someone ackward who refuses failing that hand in tickets on friday and get cash then.
Just to note the issue here…
a) via the timing I have experienced, the £15 training allowance (x2) goes in your bank account along with the JSA in 2 weeks after the course began
b) you have to get the cash from somewhere for that time
c) you have to manage two weeks travel before you get your jobseekers and the training allowance (and of course around that time the first week reimbursement.)
d) YMCA could have got everyone a bus pass – will be much easier and probably be much cheaper for them too.
Oh, there is no deduction for the two week Gateway 2 Work course. This is technically a New Deal scheme course but I am referring to the 13 week courses.
I was told the same:
“Why?”
a) It’s an admin fee
“Why am I taxed it not the Jobcentre?”
b) Well, your travel allowance is designed to cover the first £4 admin fee – and the rest if a bonus to spend how you wish.
Do I have to remind people reading this how much they get per client per week? I didn’t think so…
Let me work out the “admin costs”:
a) collecting the tickets (for 5 days, 1 minute is adequate)
b) filling in the travel expenses form (30 secs for working out the amount and 30 seconds for writing)
c) counting the cash and handing it to you (one minute)
So it takes approx 3 minutes per person…
I don’t know how much Training Advisers get paid, its not a job where you require any qualifications so say around £8 per hour.
£8 / 20 (hour divided by duration per person) = £0.40
Not only is this illegal and that the providers are being paid for providing this service anyway; the maximum weekly expenditure per staff member processing an travel reimbursement claim is 40p (assuming that they get paid £8 per hour)
So, for this example and like I said this is an unlawful deduction the admin fee excuse is nonsense, you are being charged £3.60 over the actual processing cost (which has already been allowed for with the money the provider gets from the Jobcentre) this is NINE TIMES more than the actual cost.
Staff are paid a salary (some may even just be paid wages) for working x amount of hours a week, x amount of hours a day. The cost for travel claims isn’t variable – if they didn’t process any they would be paid for doing nothing – its a fixed cost which has already been paid for by the Jobcentre.
Lets recap, 60 travel claims costs…
real: nothing, staff would have nothing to do otherwise – staffing is a fixed cost, staff would be paid even if they had no participants (until they hit the wall of course).
actual: 60 * 40p = £24 (this is the proportion of time value it takes to process claims)
taxation: 60 * £4 = £240 (this is how much clients are being charged/taxed to be reimbursed)
overpayment: £216 per week for 60 people (this is what the 9 times admin fee of what the usage of time costs)
overpayment(actual): participants aren’t legally obligated to pay their admin fee (and there were no contract signed stating of such a “service” has such a deduction which would be illegal under the OFT fair contract terms, anyway – i.e. you had to agree to recover from hardship the cost of travel). so £240 actual overpayment per 60 clients.
Please Note: we are looking at a weekly wage sort of money gained from this.
Hi Jon
Thanks for commenting.
To apply it to another situation for example, if your employer deducted £30 per week off your wages as an admin fee it is unlawful because a) no law gives them the permission to do so and b) the employee hasn’t signed an contract to allow this (even if they did a court would normally rule it as unfair and unlawful).
…Training Allowance & Travel…
The deduction is made when a provider adheres to the Provider Guidance. I cannot charge you £20 on the street because you looked at me and claim it as a service. You only part your cash when buying a product or service (or alternatively as a donation to charity).
The New Deal provider isn’t providing you with a service directly, it is providing a contract to DWP for Jobcentre Plus. Jobcentre Plus pays the provider £4 per week per participant for travel anyway (with the rest of reimbursements taken from the money they receive for providing the course).
When claiming travel reimbursement (the term alone implies a full reclaim, not partial as doesn’t specify that) you do not sign a contract allowing the reimbursement subject to an “admin fee” furthermore the law doesn’t state permission to do so.
You do not pay the admin fee upfront but comes off as a deduction that you didnt agree to, have no choice about and no law enforce it. Alternatively, you can’t be a customer of a shop and find you have been short changed due to the store imposing a hidden taxation of their own.
Jobseekers might not be aware but all Jobcentre policies (the legal ones anyway) are law. The policy and guidance are simply an easier to understand version for their staff and the customer.
For example: The Jobseekers Agreement natively is just a contractual agreement where it wouldn’t be enforceable but the Jobseekers Act 1995 (as amended) makes reference to it so it becomes an agreement binding to statutory law, as such laws make reference to it and prescribes how it is to be used and enforced. Decision Makers adhere to (or supposedly) the JSA Regs when making decisions. They can’t simply say “No” just because they don’t like someone or because they are paid by the Government. When you are given a job or an mandatory “opportunity” by an Employment Officer, this is a Jobseeker Direction – and yes you guessed it, the law makes you have to apply for them.
If you know of anything which makes the deductions lawful and legal please disclose but i think you will find that the deductions are unlawful. Anyone is welcome to get a solicitor to check this out. I can only provide limited guidance on this because of time restraints and not being qualified about giving advice. I checked over 50 laws on Jobseekers Allowance, New Deal and Social Security – which took some time! – and couldn’t find anything thats allows the deduction or suggest that the Training Allowance is to cover the £4 deduction.
The complicated aspect here is no law directly suggest this (i.e. £4 deductions of New Deal travel) is illegal – that is to say no law (that is part of the Social Security, Jobseekers Allowance and New Deal laws) specifically says that this act is illegal, but neither of these law says it is legal. However the same laws that makes it illegal to tax your customers (for example – excluding VAT) applies here.
In order for Jobcentre Plus and the providers to carry out schemes like New Deal, laws have to be written. It is not as simple as writing a business plan of how to deliver the scheme (and as long as it doesn’t infringe any other laws it is fine) because as it uses taxpayers money (£75 billion of it) which goes to the providers (including a £4 travel allowance weekly) guidance alone wont work to ensure providers behave thus laws are written. A contractual agreement alone isn’t adequate on such a large scale. Statutory laws typically bind on financial issues and making a deduction of travel allowance clearly falls under this.
I hope this helps.
Hi Jon. I am not going to argue.
JCP is an Executive Agency of the DWP which is the UK largest government department – any deduction made has to be made in law which is complete proof of what I have been saying. You are welcome to suggest the Act or Regulation along with the section etc. of any law you believe which allows this. The JCP does not make the £4 deduction – the training provider does. You are welcome to disclose if you have had claimed travel directly from JCP – which is not the case. Travel claims (minus deduction) are taken out of Petty Cash or Travel Payment budget (depending on the provider) it is not the JCP even though the money comes from DWP.
I am aware that a training provider isn’t an employer doing wage deduction or shop taxing customers… but I have explaiend it in training provider terms which you didn’t understand and have used them two scenarios to further explain which appears to be of no further help.
You having to check up suggests that you have never claimed travel on New Deal courses thus as an outsider so-to-speak who doesn’t know the process which makes it a bit shady for you to criticise me as stating something untrue. Your comments, nevertheless were welcome as I keep this a balanced discussion. Please see the About page for more.
Of course Jon, I understand. I hope you didn’t think the situation was “£4 deduction?! That sucks! Lets do a blog post on it”.
I had always felt this was somewhat dodgy to say the least and my last New Deal course ended some time ago. I had took in depth research before I made this post otherwise it would have been the first post on this blog. DWP were partially involved in the investigation – they could not justify it in the eyes of the law neither.
First thing I would suggest is sending them a notice telling them to 1) stop deducting £4 from future weeks and 2) reimburse each of the named individuals for the number of completed weeks on programme that they claimed travel for.
You will need to send it addressed to the CEO. Something like:
”
RE: Unlawful weekly travel deductions
It has come to our attention that We (the following named New Deal participants) have been unlawfully deducted £4 travel a week from A4e whom have no statutory legal basis to do so:
Jack Daniels of 12 The Road, Somewhere, AB12 3CD
Ann Summers of 104 Another Road, Somewhere Else, AB11 2EF
(etc. add as many names and addresses as required.)
We are aware that your New Deal contract specifies reference to the Provider Guidance which mentions this however; such statement is in fact unlawful as no legislation either UK statutory Act or Statutory Instrument makes this enforceable unlike the other contents of such guidance.
We therefore request that any travel claims made during all further weeks left on New Deal Provision to the above named participants shall be reimbursed in full without the £4 travel deduction, and shall anyone else make an similar notification the date such a notice is deemed to be served shall be 2 working days following the date of this letter.
We also request that within 14 working days subject to nominal interest applied from the dates of each individual travel claim per each individual for delay in payment plus surcharge of 10p per week that all monies unlawfully deducted are refunded to the above named participants.
This notice shall be deemed served 2 working days from the date of this letter.
We will not hesitate to commence legal proceedings against A4e Ltd in the (local) Country Court should the above requirements not be met within 28 working days from the date of this letter. ”
The following option if they don’t comply is to take them to your local county court with the Small Claims Court there. As Jobseekers it won’t cost you anything to take such action and there are numerous guides on the internet and I can also assist as I have used the system before too. As there is a group of you, you definitely stand a better chance. I am fully willing to publicise any possible court case over the entire New Deal Scandal network (ok, it’s not that big lol) and I know other blogs will also pick up on it especially Ipswich Unemployed Action and Watching A4e!!!
I believe that local press would also be interested but you would have to serve the above notice and give them adequate time and chance to fairly resolve the issue. That could even open the flood gates with other participants and providers nationwide.
Good point there. Laws are typically made for England & Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or General UK. When doing research I searched the whole UK (so including Scotland etc.) and found nothing to support the unlawful £4 weekly deduction in Scotland or England and Wales.
Are you on the 13 week New Deal course?
If so the £4 per week deduction is illegal.
I would advise you to take the correct approach. Feel free to remain confident while approaching this issue. The first step isn’t all guns blazing, speak to someone with some authority about your concerns that others are saying the £4 deduction is illegal and probe them whether it is or not. They will likely disagree.
Your provider aren’t able to withdraw reimbursing your travel and if that happened the Jobcentre would likely do it for you instead (I heard this happened to someone before and they didn’t get £4 deducted). You would then have a good reason not to do the New Deal course if they stopped reimbursing your travel.
Basically, while being on the 13 week New Deal course you are in effect being sanctioned roughly 1 weeks money.
People claiming benefits such as Jobseekers Allowance are entitled (in most cases) to obtain fee exemption.
you would be entitled to legal aid in regard to legal action,as you say when it comes to claiming benefits it might be a different story.
claims of defamation by some when their “organisation” comes under scrutiny isnt the same in their eyes as defamation to the jobseeker through their business practices,discrimination for simply being an unemployed person.
personally i have had “be careful what you say we might remember that next time” or “the system can mess you about” the earlier comment when i was sent for a vacancy that didnt exist oh yes thats happened.
the ndpa is treading a very fine line with comments i found also,not mentioning precisely but seemed to think i needed some physical treatment.there seems to be unemployed people in fear in the 21 century in a supposed democracy this is a deeply concerning and worrying aspect when people are treated like this and needs to be closely looked at.
as apposed to a normal one hours traveling from the front door this is extended to one and a half hours on new deal,this is commonly breached by the jobcentre from my experience as different advisers seem to have their own views on this and is frequently disregarded,a “new deal pass” is normally provided but the costs of photographs is met by the jobseeker commonly around £4+ on top
Who was the provider?
Some New Deal providers have raked in millions over the years via this scam thus I am not surprised they denied it.
***(Scenario:)***
If I was the provider and someone really did make something like this up (not the case here) I wouldn’t say that the “information” was “wrong” but something like “fraudulent”.
***
This is very mild wording by them. They also didnt (I assume as you didnt mention it) say why it was wrong (from their eyes). No mention of any legal authority or even contractual element to deny the claims.
many former tax payers including all here have found themselves placed on new deal.the bad treatment/bullying/harassment fully extends to them also including past “i am alright jacks’” that are not now,the only cries were when the banking sector tried to somehow distinguish themselves from other unemployed in the media with job losses it was now time to demand more money for them and their families.
it makes no difference to someones background or past work history.
if you have the misfortune to find yourself unemployed for a period of time you are going to find yourself in this position,this is what the complaints are about its your hard earned £700 million thats now be squandered on nothing more then detention centers for unemployed with outcomes that would be similar to being outside at least you can get todays paper not a fortnights ago,and not have to listen to the above.
due to the credit driven boom bust of the last twenty nine years the policies will have a direct impact on the welfare state with unemployment near constantly in the news,the horrendous debt figures are another major outcome although these are not so well published and are very damaging also.
And we’re all tax payers too…